EP 112: Creating Psychological Safety: Leadership, Feedback & Thriving Across Intersections with Karen Jones

In this episode of Thriving in Intersectionality, Dr. Lola Adeyemo is joined by Karen Jones, a seasoned leadership and organizational effectiveness consultant and the founder of Sacred Leadership Solutions, for a grounded and deeply human conversation about what it really takes to build workplaces where people can thrive.

Karen brings more than 15 years of experience across Fortune 500 organizations including American Express, Sara Lee, U.S. Cellular, and Ulta Beauty, with a career rooted at the intersection of leadership development, change, and organizational effectiveness. She is also an executive leader at NextUp, a nonprofit dedicated to developing the next generation of leaders.

Together, Lola and Karen explore leadership not as theory, but as lived practice — examining how feedback, identity, privilege, and psychological safety shape the way people experience work.

In this conversation, you’ll hear:

• How Karen understands intersectionality through her lived experience as a Black woman leader in corporate America

• Why psychological safety is foundational — especially when conversations get complex or uncomfortable

• What giving and receiving feedback looks like when development is the real goal

• How privilege and identity influence access, perception, and opportunity at work

• Why networking and influence matter more than ever for career growth

• What professionals should focus on now as the future of work continues to evolve

• How leaders can develop talent while building cultures that actually work in practice — not just on paper

Karen also shares powerful personal stories that illuminate how leadership, privilege, and humanity intersect in ways that no framework alone can explain.

This is a thoughtful and practical episode for leaders, HR and DEI professionals, and anyone navigating their career while carrying layered identities — with insights you can apply immediately this year and beyond.

About Our Guest

Karen Jones is the founder of Sacred Leadership Solutions and a leadership and organizational effectiveness consultant with more than 15 years of experience designing and delivering learning and development experiences that produce sustainable outcomes. She is known for creating psychologically safe environments where people can grow, learn, and lead authentically. Karen currently serves as an executive leader at NextUp, a nonprofit focused on advancing women and building inclusive leadership pipelines.

🔗 Learn more about NextUp: https://www.nextupisnow.org 
🔗 Connect with Karen on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karen-jones-36785b18 

🎙️ Connect with the Host

Dr. Lola Adeyemo is a leadership strategist, speaker, and CEO of EQImindset, partnering with organizations to build inclusive cultures through ERG strategy, leadership development, and belonging-centered systems. She is the creator and host of the Thriving in Intersectionality podcast, where she amplifies the voices of leaders navigating layered identities in today’s workplace.

🔗 Explore all podcast episodes & resources:
https://www.DrLola-Adeyemo.com/podcast 

🔗 Connect with Lola on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/drlolaadeyemo/ 

For Leaders & Organizations

If this conversation resonates and you're looking to strengthen leadership development, ERG strategy, or inclusive culture within your organization, explore Dr. Lola’s consulting and workshops through EQImindset.

🔗 https://www.eqimindset.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Hello and welcome to the Thriving and Intersectionality Podcast. A podcast that explores the real experiences of professionals navigating the workplace with layered belief identities. I'm your host, Dr. Lola Adiemo, the CEO of EQI Mindset and founder of the nonprofit Immigrants Incorporated Inc. I'm also an author, speaker, and a workplace inclusion strategist. I work with organizations to build communities of belonging through strategy, storytelling, and systems change. This podcast amplifies the voices of professionals from intersectional backgrounds, immigrants, ethnic minorities, cross-generation, veterans, working parents, individuals with disabilities, and so many more. Through solo reflections and guest conversations, we'll uncover the eating challenges, celebrate the wins, and offer insights to help you thrive, not just survive in the corporate world. Because in today's global workforce, belonging isn't just a bonus, it's the catalyst for real growth and impact. Let's dive in. Welcome back to another podcast episode. And on today's episode of the Thriving in Intersectionality, I have Karen Jones with me, and I'm going to take a minute to introduce her before I bring her on stage. Karen Jones is a seasoned leadership and organizational effectiveness consultant. She's the founder of Sacred Leadership Solutions. She's also an executive leader at Next Up Is Now, an organization we'll talk about a little bit during this chat. Karen brings more than 15 years of experience helping organizations strengthen leadership, develop talent, and build inclusive cultures that actually work in practice, not just on paper. She has held executive roles in several Fortune 500 companies, including American Express, Sara Lee, US Cellular, and Alta Beauty, and she spent her career at the intersection of leadership development, change, and organizational effectiveness. One of the things Karen is known for is her ability to create psychologically safe learning environments, especially when conversations get real, complex, or uncomfortable. In this episode, we talk about our career journey and some of the transitions, and then we'll have a look forward to advice from her on how professionals can focus on developing themselves and their career in the world of work. So, this is a thoughtful practical conversation, and I think you walk away with insights you can apply immediately this year and beyond. Thank you for joining us. Before I dive into my conversation with my guest Karen, I am going to, as usual, set the context for those that are coming into this conversation for the first time on what is intersectionality. Intersectionality is a framework that recognizes our multiple aspects of identity, such as gender, race, ethnicity, even immigration starters and class, among so many others, are so many different parts of these layered identities for us, for leaders, for individuals overlap and interact, creating very unique experiences of privilege or discrimination that you can't understand by examining just a single one of these in isolation. And so that's why I love the diverse guests I bring because they come from different perspectives, and we hopefully dive into questions that you don't normally get on normal podcasts. So, hi Karen, how are you doing today?

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Great, thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

Of course, I am so glad we're able to make this work. All right, we're gonna dive right into your introduction. So we've heard your bio. Um, beyond the bio, we are going to dive into a little more about you. So when you think of the word intersectionality, could you highlight some of those intersections for you that are relevant to you and you want to spotlight?

SPEAKER_00 4:44

Sure, Lola. Um, then thank you so much again for having me to have this great conversation about such a provocative topic, in my view, you know. Um, and you'll hear more, your listeners will hear more about uh my background. But when I think about intersectionality for myself, I certainly do think about uh myself as female, of course. Um, I think about what that means. And um, and for your listeners, I um was born, raised, and educated in the United States, which um which gives me um a very, I would say, a very specific worldview on things as another part, as we talk about another part of my intersectionality and that being a person um of African-American descent and then the lineage of chattel slavery in America. So um so that would uh certainly describe two of the biggest or most pronounced parts of my intersectionality. Um, but there are many others, you know, um, that define me. Um I grew up in a two-parent home. I grew up uh in the suburbs uh of Chicago, very middle class. Um I'm uh college educated and graduate school educated. And so many of those things give me some unique privileges too, which I'm happy to share with you, Lola, about um some of the epiphanies I've had, about the privilege that I also, you know, I also have as a part of my intersectionality. So but I would say certainly to your definition, uh, which is uh the Kimberly Williams Crenshaw. Uh yes.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

Um and thank you for mentioning that that I came into this work through our work. And so I do reference Kimberly Crenshaw's work a lot.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

Yeah, for sure. I certainly her uh definition and experience certainly resonate with me directly and very deeply.

SPEAKER_02 6:25

Thank you. And I I I heard you when you talked a little bit about the privilege and the um, well, maybe we should we should talk about those examples right now. Are there ways that you've seen some of your background experiences show up as uh privilege or not or discrimination? Do you want to give us some of the examples?

SPEAKER_00 6:47

Sure. And I'll I'll go to the ones of privilege first, Lola, because I have a I had a very unique uh experience that happened to me, which helped me to understand my privilege. Because uh for your listeners that may uh have not grown be uh grown up or been born, raised, or educated in the United States, um uh oftentimes we learn a lot about our heritage through um our lineage, you know, through parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, etc. And it can be um a very, very provocative and deep experience of discrimination, right? And so you learn about a lot of those things. Uh, Lola, my mom uh is particularly was very active in the civil rights movement in partnership with Dr. Martin Luther King, Ralph Avanafti, and others. So my role review was very much formed around civil rights and um and things of that nature, um, as was I was also raised by a Baptist minister. So brevity is not my gift, as you can see, Lola, but I'll try to get to the point.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

This is the space to be all that and capture all that. So keep going.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

But with that said, Lola, I was I remember distinctly being in graduate school and being um it was one of the times I remember being prof profoundly aware of privilege. And um, and I was in a course in my graduate school program um at Gonzaga, and I would, we were the the topic that we were talking about or and debating was um homelessness and why a homeless person would want to indulge in something like manicures and pedicures and things like that, right? And so, and um, and at the time, and I will say for your listeners' benefit, this has been many years ago. So please wrap humanity around uh my perspective at that time. But I said, you know, I just couldn't see it. I said, I didn't understand why a person who would be homeless would indulge in that. If they would with so many other needs that they might have, why might that be? And so a classmate of mine um who didn't have some of the systemic uh characteristics like being a person of color, things like that, she literally, as they say, Lola, read me and she said, the reason why is because through the course of homelessness, people are literally fighting for their very humanity. That's what she said. To feel literally human sometimes. And so the investment of a manicure or a pedicure is something that helps them to tap into their very humanity. And Lola, I can tell you that um I was I was stopped in my tracks emotionally by that response because I had lived such a life of privilege, I would say, where the pursuit of one's humanity was foreign to me. I um, you know, to really understand that and to tap into that was so foreign to me, and it changed everything for me forever from that point forward. And so, um, and I have a really another very, very quick story too, Lola, if I if I might, about another moment that I could share with your listeners. Um, when I was a mentor at this point, this was a few years after that story, um, to some young girls in here in the Chicago land area uh in an underserved community. And um, and so as a mentor, I went to check in with their teachers or whatever, with a teacher. One of the teachers shared that one of the young ladies, pardon me, was sleeping in her class. And so, um, and I was infuriated. I couldn't understand why a person would sleep through a class at all. And so I went to the young lady and I was like, there's no excuse. Why would you be sleeping in her class? And she said, Um, Miss Karen, the reason I sleep in her class is because my mom is crack addicted and there are men walking through our apartment all night long. And she said, she said, I stay awake to protect my little sister, to make sure no one bothers her or harms her. And so the first time that I feel safe to sleep at all is in first period class. And that's where I sleep. And so, Lola, these times made me profoundly see the state of my privilege. And I'm so grateful to have had those moments because otherwise, you know, I was thinking about just the conversations we've had at my dinner table for years about our linear from chattel slavery, um, and um systemic oppression, things of that nature. So I certainly feel uh lost in that in that right.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

Oh my gosh. Um, thank you for sharing stories. And I I personally love stories because I think the goal of some of these conversations, we're not here to preach or to teach, we're here to share from our own experiences, and and stories paint the clearest pictures for us. So thank you for sharing those because I I think it ultimately sums up what we talk about when we say before you judge, put yourself in someone's shoes. You don't know my story, you don't know the person's story, and and just giving ourselves permission to pause and ask questions before we think we know. Thank you. All right, so um, now that you've given us moments to pause and think, let's go back to career background. And so we did we did hear uh a little bit about your bio, and and for those listening, you'll be able to have a link to um uh check out uh Karen's uh sites. But walk us through your career journey and how did you get here? We can we can end up where here is, um, but if you want to walk back through some of the major milestones on your career journey and how you, you know, take your time, how you were able to process and make some of the decisions you had to make along the way.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

Absolutely. So, for the benefit of your listeners, Lola, I will say um I've been around for a while. I have about a third almost 30-year career journey. So I promise to uh try to execute brevity to the very best of my ability in it. But I'll start with um what something that was definitely shaped who I am as a person, one of the milestones, and that is I graduated from a historically black college. Um the name of it is Grambling State University, and you probably likely see it on my bio. Um, and that was certainly um a profound experience to be able to go for those of you or your listeners who aren't um really informed about historically black colleges. Um, some people are misinformed about them, Lola, because they think that they were established as something that was exclusionary, um, and that only people who are black or of African American descent could attend. But um literally they were formed because of segregation and of systems of segregation here in the US that uh kept people that look like me from attending other universities, other major universities. So when I went to Grand Lane, it was certainly um an experience of African-American or black pride there. But one of my first experiences, or one of the many that I've had, where I saw very, very successful and prestigious black people, people who had come from um all kinds of very uh long, expansive academic backgrounds, et cetera. So, but after I left uh university, then I went on to do hotel restaurant management uh for uh Hyatt Hotel Corporation. That was certainly um my major was business management. And um, and that was it, I'll say this Lola, I love that work. It really helped me to uh roll up my sleeves and learn a lot of things about leadership. Um, I and I will tell you after that, I said I never want to work in a place that doesn't actually open and close. Hotels just like a hospital note. It's very hard work. It is the baptism by fire of leadership. So um I'm really glad that I really have my roots there because they leveraged me to my next place that I worked, uh, which is the American Express Corporation. And um, there is where um I learned a lot about operations. Um I managed a lot of different places for them. Um, but it's where I uh had a wonderful conversation and it's a milestone in my life too, where my leader, I'll never forget her, Linda Scott, if she ever hears this, Linda Manassey Scott, and she said to me, she said, You don't love sales, do you? Because I was doing something that had sales accountability. I said, No, not really. She said, because you're not very good at, right? And so she said, uh, she continued to say, but what you are good at is the people aspects, development, those things you have. Such a high-performing team, you know, um, and you're very good at that. So she moved me to a role that helped me to be uh responsible for the employee development and retention of my entire region at that time. And after that, that was my soft launch into human resources and into people strategies.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

And after that, that is that is funny because I I think what you just described is like a masterclass in feedback.

SPEAKER_02 14:58

You know, because some people would just give you the feedback as a negative thing, yeah, and then walk away, leaving you feeling like I'm not enough, I'm not good at my job. But what she saw was the broader perspective that she brought to you like you're not good at this, but this is where you're good at. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

Absolutely. Like I said, I've it's been more than 25 years, and I value that conversation more than anything because I sit here today with you, Lola, because of that conversation. I will say that. Because after that, I went on to continue to work in human resources kinds of work, disciplines like organization development, talent management, leadership development, learning and development for 20 years after that, and organizations that you all may have known, the Sarah Lee Corporation. I worked, did this kind of work. Um, I did in wireless telecommunications for a company that some of your listeners may have heard of. It's called US Cellular. It's been since acquired by T-Mobile. Um, I also did this kind of work um for a global company that is the uh supply chain and analytics division for McDonald's, it's called Javi. And that was their global head of talent management there, uh senior director of talent management. Um, and also did this work as vice president of talent management for the Ulta Beauty Corporation. So um I love this. Uh, I would do it for free. I hope none of my uh people listening would want to pick me up on that. But uh but I love this kind of work and um I'm so grateful now. And um also would do uh work for amaz an amazing nonprofit called Next Up, where um we do learn leadership development, learning development, um, as well as the work that I have on my own Monica, Safe Leadership Solutions.

SPEAKER_02 16:32

Yeah, no, thank you for sharing that. So we came in touch with each other through the phase where I see you doing what you're doing now, and so now I'm trying to picture you as a salesperson. I was like, Yeah, she probably was not good at it. Not have been good at it. Yeah, you're such a people development, talent uh part of this. And so we're grateful for constructive feedback. And so I guess my question would be as as you did those transitions, you've also worked across so many industries and global organizations. Um, and if you wanted to share, what are some of the the things for those listening that maybe they can relate with your intersections that you shared earlier and they are earlier in their career? And now they are thinking, what should I be doing? So I know you you're you know the world of work is changing. So we're gonna talk about the future, but I I want to talk about first the your own journey. What are some of the things that helped you during your journey?

SPEAKER_00 17:30

Yeah, locally, you know what? There was one organization that I failed to mention, I skipped it that I did work for over five years, and that is in the field of outplacement. So for people who were in career transitions, and um, and I'll and I'm so grateful for that work in service to the question that you just asked me, Lola, because um, what I learned in during that uh that time in outplacement, and I've been able to apply that to everywhere that I've been. Uh to so for all of your listeners that are in early career, regardless of where you are, please build and maintain an active network. It is more important than ever to make sure that you do that. And um, and we live in such a time, in my opinion, in my point of view, Lola, where um, you know, many people generationally that are have grew up in the African-American community, I was, and I'll speak for myself, it could be different because there's a lot of intersectionality and diversity even within that community. But we didn't, I didn't grow up learning a lot about the power of networking and relationship. Um, I grew up with the themes of, you know, work hard and uh someone will absolutely notice, right? And I can tell you at this point, um, within the macro environment, in my opinion, Lola, that is no longer true for the places that many of our listeners will likely want to ascend. You know, you need to be able to understand your strategic um relationships, professional relationships, um, know how to approach people, establish and maintain those relationships. And I can tell you, uh, Lola, for the last 20 years, I've I've not had to look for a job. I've been able to move from place to place and navigate through the power of relationship. Because through the lens of my intersectionality, one thing is true, Lola, and that is um I've also learned that oftentimes uh people in the US that are of African American descent and because of you know our history, sponsorship it often eludes us. It did me. Some some people get sponsors, but I can tell you there's research that shows that sponsorship often eludes us. Um, and so with that said, the power of network is even more vital. Um, so if any of your listeners are saying, you know what, I don't really have sponsorship. I have a lot of mentorship or someone that will say my name in the room where I need to be, please don't be despaired because there are ways that you can leverage the power of network. And so don't pass on those. If you're in social um uh places or, you know, just use that no matter what. Walk up, talk to people, give that nice firm handshake, and um, and uh and stay in touch with people. And we have so many ways and conduits to do so with these now, like LinkedIn and others, where we can build and maintain those relationships.

SPEAKER_02 20:00

I I know. I mean, there's pros and cons with technology these days, but I think one of the parts, one of the pieces I am so grateful for personally is is uh technology and being able to meet people. I launched my podcast um in the virtual space. I have actually never interviewed any guests in person. I think I've got a couple of times where people start to ask me, oh, since we're in the same city, do we want to meet? I don't even know how to do it because I'm like, I've interviewed people from all over the world, just in the virtual space, and there's so much power in that if we can leverage technology with intention. So um, thank you for sharing that. All right, um, so I guess you are also in a very unique position. Um, can you share a little bit about Next Talk actually? Because I think Ad Network and Organization, it's also really powerful because we just talked about uh your own transition, the power of sponsors. And then before we jump into looking ahead at the future of work, um, can you talk about your current role and organization?

SPEAKER_00 21:06

I'd love to. Thank you for the opportunity to do so, Lola. And we and I'm so honored that we had Dr. Lola as our guest at Next Up, which um for the benefit of your listeners who are not familiar with us, uh, we're a 501c3 nonprofit and we specialize on literally building the next generation of leaders in the workplace. And so with that, I'm so happy and honored to serve as their vice president of learning and development, uh, where we have so many uh strategic alliances in partnership with large companies. Um we're power packed in the consumer products, good, and retail space, but we have other uh partners in consulting. And now we've done a strategic merger with a powerful organization called Paradigm for Parity. We just did a wonderful merger with them, and they bring the power of banking and finance uh to the world of Next Up. So with that, uh, we offer leadership development, assessments, uh executive coaching. We offer Uh strategic solutions for organizations of many sizes. So if you're interested, check us out at uh nextupisnow.org is our website. Um, and there you'll see a very large portfolio where membership organization of experiences that your listeners would be able to take advantage of. So we'd love to have you as a next up member.

SPEAKER_02 22:20

Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. And for those listening, you'll have the link to Next Up is Now, or you can look it up as well. Amazing organization that I've been proud to spread the word about. I just did that a couple of days ago with somebody that I knew. I was like, you should check out this organization. And I love what you're doing and the impact side of it. Um is I mean, there's a lot of learning and development spaces, but I love the impact piece that you bring into these for organizations. Um I'm an advocate of uh the 501c3 nonprofit space because I think there's a there's the impact and purpose-driven side of things that we can bring to corporations. And so you are in a very unique space, and thank you for your leadership in that space.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

Thank you, and thank you for being our honored guest. That's where it works.

SPEAKER_02 23:07

Anytime. All right, so let's let's look forward. So you have a unique lens on the world of work right now. I mean, you've seen us through different phases of the workplace and the world, and you are also working in learning and development space. And as we think towards the the new year and and people's career goals, I mean, there's a lot of transition, there's a lot of people um with, you know, just feeling insecure about their career, maybe thinking transition, maybe layoffs. What does the future of work look like? And what advice will you give to people now, in the now, as they think about their career journey?

SPEAKER_00 23:47

I would say, and it's such a great question, Lola, with profound roots for me as a person who has done leadership development and learning development and OD or organization development for so many years. And I can tell you, um, Lola, I remember over the course of many years thinking about the pace of change, and uh, and it's been years ago, likely as as many as 20, when I thought, I'll be so glad when all of this slows down, and it hasn't. It's only accelerated right since then. But but the one thing I will tell you, Dr. Lola, that's very unique in my view in this moment, and that is um the AI evolution and what's happening right now, um, as well as um, you know, the sociopolitical landscape. It's it's it's very different than I've seen in my lifetime. I'll say that. And so with that, um, we know that all things be encyclical and things will usually go full circle. But for your listeners, I would say this um make sure that you're tapped into your skills. Like, what is it that you bring to the table? And when you're talking to people, um, make sure that you can articulate that very well and upskill yourself in there. Um, as Dr. Lola mentioned with technology, you know, there are more ways than ever to be able to update your professional skills and to be able to, um, and I offer you as an leadership development professional or learning professional, be able to articulate those easily. Because I would say this. Oftentimes I see um, particularly younger talent, Dr. Lola, when you ask them about um what they want to do and are to tell you about themselves, they talk about their passions, um, their aspirations, but all but oftentimes I have to coach people to say, tell me about your talent. What is it that you do? Tell me about your skills, what is it that you bring to the table? So uh, in summary, just really upskill yourself if you have the ability to go into the uh AI and you can do so for no charge. There are many uh AI tools that you can play uh with and um and get, I would say, get adoption. Go there, don't be um intimidated by it, don't be afraid um about your job. You know, look around and understand how you can use AI to leverage what you are doing on a day-to-day basis if you're uh currently employed, because we want to make sure that these young folks that are coming out of college right now, that they're set for this for a new landscape, never to return, I believe, to the old way. I think we're just creating a new reality of work.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

Yeah, absolutely. And and and I love that you said that like look around. There's so many opportunities now to upskill yourself, and it's very affordable. Sometimes you don't even know what your company offers. So maybe that's the first place people should start. Absolutely on what you already have within your organization. I bet you have a ton of stuff uh with all those platforms, right?

SPEAKER_00 26:28

And if you don't, you know, use social media, use the power of social media. TikTok is a wealth of information if you're not familiar, Instagram. There are so many ways without um uh a huge monetary investment.

SPEAKER_02 26:40

I know the TikTok think the TikTok generation. I still haven't caught on to that, but I still get there.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

I I warn you, Dr. Lola, it's addictive.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

So you know what? Maybe maybe that's my biggest fear is uh my primary platform right now is LinkedIn. I do have a presence and others, but it's like I cannot keep up.

SPEAKER_02 27:04

Um but I I have heard people leverage like where is your space and finding ways to leverage that space to upskill yourself. Don't just scroll through social media, um, use social media and and technology platforms to upskill yourself, as you said.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 27:23

All right, so uh before I go to my final fun question, um, anything else? Anything else you would like to add uh for professionals who are navigating uh workplace, who are minorities, who are diverse professionals and they're navigating the world of work these days. Is there anything else you want to add for them before we close out?

SPEAKER_00 27:42

Sure, Dr. Lola. And I and uh you might get a little bit of a chuckle out of what I'm about to say because uh statistical research shows that the listeners will remember about 11% of what you and I discussed today, uh, after they watched the uh the podcast. So I'll say it again for the to ensure that it's fortified in the 11%. Please, please, please network. Please do so. Um, and I can tell you, um they say some of the saddest words in the English language are I wish I would have. So when you're out and about, you know, walk up to people, talk to them. Um know when you're going out professionally or even socially, you know, create a plan, a little bit of a plan of who you, you know, if you're familiar with who might be there, um, so that you can at least have a few things that you can walk up to a person and share with them, um, read an article that they've written, uh look at their work background on LinkedIn. Like you said, Dr. Lola, I'm a LinkedIn aficionado as well. But please do that. And that um certainly allows you to um to tap into a number of things that you'll need through the course of your professional career. In addition to that, um, you can learn from people. And uh and you can also give reciprocally through networking. You can talk to people and offer your perspectives and your advice and all of that. Um, I offer one more final thought when it comes to what people should be doing now, Dr. Lola, and that is uh something that I've learned recently from a published author about networking, and that is um there are there's two different things because people often see networking as I want to approach someone who they feel is more powerful or more learned than them. But there's influence uh is agnostic of love. So you can be very influential without having to have you know positional power or authority. So work to be influential at what you do, like Dr. Lola in um, you know, in her podcast and all of the things she brings to the table, so that you can reciprocate the value of networking. When you're talking to someone, you can learn from them and then offer them your pre expertise also. So that's what I would offer. Just please do that, don't neglect that and um and wish that you had met someone and then say, Oh my gosh, I was at a conference with them and I was afraid to walk up to them and say anything. Please don't pass on comfortable.

SPEAKER_02 29:50

Yeah, absolutely. Um, thank you. Thank you for sharing that. And I think people oh, we overthink networking. One of one of the the things that I started to tell myself is to feel comfortable in the spaces where I don't know anybody. And some people might think that's very hard, but actually, I I had to build up to being comfortable in spaces where I don't know anybody. It used to be very intimidating for me. Um, like I want body all the time. But I just I go there, I show up, and I tell myself, I want if I meet one new person, this has been successful. And I go for my one. Well, I promise you, most times I meet more than one new person.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

Yep, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 30:27

Yeah, once you set that goal, you exceed it, right? So I always tell some tell myself, okay, I'm coming for this thing, I'm exhausted, but I'm gonna try and make a new connection. And usually I end up with two or three new connections that I actually spend time with, exchange contact, um, discuss with, and and gain something from. So it makes it very intentional and he also makes it a win that you're able to celebrate. So thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 30:53

Lola, can I add one final thought about networking before we move from the topic? And that is for anyone who is introverted, I want to encourage you because it doesn't take extroversion to be able to be effective at what Dr. Lola just said that she does, and that's the goal to meet at least one new person. Um, you know, introverts, uh, please be encouraged. It is a discipline of practice because people would be surprised to know that in Myers Brig, I my uh style is INFP. I'm very introverted inherently, and so but it I walk up to people, I do exactly what you do, Dr. Lola. I make it a goal to walk up to people and talk to them in those spaces, and then I might have to go home and lay down after that, but I do it.

SPEAKER_02 31:32

It's funny you say that I kind of sense you were a little more introverted and extroverted. But that's the thing, though. A lot of introverts, well, most introverts have a lot to say. It's not that they don't have a lot to say, it's just that maybe sometimes just getting started. And so they are the best set of people to walk up to and start strike a conversation with.

SPEAKER_00 31:53

Absolutely, it's not shyness, it's just we're energy, where our energy flows.

SPEAKER_02 31:57

Energy, please do energy, right? Well, um, I am so glad we got to chat. Now I go on to my final question, um, which is always an interesting transition talking about the world of work and then into food. All right. So, Karen, uh is your favorite topic? Okay, I love it. I'm already excited to hear your response to this one. So, if you were to share a dish from your home, your culture, your family, something significant to you with your co-workers, what meal or snack of fruit will you pick and whack?

SPEAKER_00 32:34

And I love this question, Dr. Lola, because um it is certainly taps, it certainly taps into uh my roots coming up through the lineage of uh of slavery in America. Um, and I would say it is uh my mom's baked macaroni and cheese. Um and so I am so happy because uh to share this because there's so much that is in what people call traditional soul food. You know, for any of your listeners who haven't heard that nomenclature, um, and I'll share just very quickly the background of it. Um, because people uh when they were enslaved through those years in America, um, they had to make do with the portions that they were given um by the people who own them, sadly. But in that, though, Dr. Lola came uh resourcefulness that is unmatched, in my view, when it comes to meal preparation and the ability to create magic out of food. And so with that, um, there's this beautiful new uh quiz uh form of cuisine called soul food that has emerged uh in America and it has things like baked macaroni and cheese. I love uh something, cornbread dressing, not to be confused with stuffing, right? Cornbread dressing um that we make, and then also um colored greens and other things that are in the soul food menu. So if you've never had it, you're in for a treat when you taste it. If um, if you're near any restaurant that offers soul food, I would encourage you to go in and taste it. Um, but if I wanted to offer something to my colleagues, it would certainly be uh my mom's recipe for baked macaroni and cheese.

SPEAKER_02 34:04

I love that. I love that, and I love listening to how my guest um answer this question and it always ties back to what you shared about your intersectionality, what is important to you. And so again, um uh I I talk about food as a great entry point for any conversation. Absolutely, so for everyone has everyone knows food, everyone has favorite meals, and and meals sometimes has cultural meaning for people. So if you don't know how to create an icebreaker for your team or your workplace, just talk about food.

SPEAKER_01 34:38

That's a great one. That's a great one.

SPEAKER_02 34:40

People get excited to talk about food and not necessarily the cultural RPs to some people, it might just be I love sandwiches. Well, why do you love sandwich? I had a guest talk about how someone, you know, it's easy to share that with everyone. Oh, I thought that was and I thought that was so beautiful in the way he approached it to say I would pick a meal that everyone will be able to relate to it and eat. I love that. So, again, food is such a good opening conversation piece, and um, I'm looking forward to visiting you in Chicago so we can have some big smack and cheese.

SPEAKER_00 35:14

I would love that. I would love that, Dr. Will. I can't wait till you come.

SPEAKER_02 35:18

Thank you so much for joining me, Karen. Thank you for the work you do, and um, for my guest, um, hope you connect with Karen and check out uh Next Up is Now and all of the offerings that can support your career this new year and beyond. Thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_00 35:37

Thank you, Dashville. It was a pleasure.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

Thank you for being part of today's conversation on thriving in intersectionality. If you're an HR or DEI leader and you need employer resource group or business resource group resources, let's connect and LinkedIn. I help organizations build inclusive cultures through inclusive workplace communities, strategy, and storytelling. Immigrants and first-gen professionals, join our free community at www.immigrantsincorporate.org for career support, networking, and resources in community with peers who understand your journey. Tag our podcast page on LinkedIn or connect with me directly to continue the conversation. Please don't forget to rate and review to help others discover these discussions. Keep thriving in your intersections. Your story matters. I'm Dr. Lola Adeyo, and this has been Thriving in Intersectionality Podcast.