EP 133: Leading from Within — How Identity Shapes Leadership and Organizational Culture

In this episode of Thriving in Intersectionality, Dr. Lola Adeyemo sits down with leadership consultants, podcast hosts, and co-founders of ASQ Empowerment, Dr. Jessie Ferreira and Omar Ferreira, for a thoughtful conversation about identity, leadership, organizational culture, and the experiences that shape the way we lead.

The conversation begins where every episode of Thriving in Intersectionality begins—with intersectionality itself.

Rather than viewing identity through a single lens, Jessie and Omar reflect on the many visible and invisible experiences that have influenced their leadership journeys. From immigration and cultural identity to childhood experiences, family, service, education, and personal transformation, they explore how leadership is formed long before someone receives a title.

Together, they discuss why sustainable leadership begins with self-awareness, how our internal patterns shape the cultures we create, and why understanding ourselves may be the most important leadership work we ever do.

This conversation is about more than organizational culture.

It's about becoming the kind of leader who can build cultures where people—and organizations—can truly thrive.

In This Episode, We Discuss:

•  What intersectionality reveals about leadership and identity 
•  How childhood experiences shape the leaders we become 
•  Immigration, culture, and the power of lived experience 
•  Why leadership begins long before a leadership title 
•  The connection between personal growth and organizational culture 
•  Moving from reactive leadership to intentional leadership 
•  Building trust, relationships, and psychologically healthy workplaces 
•  Why self-awareness is foundational to effective leadership 
•  The power of pausing before reacting 
•  Viewing leadership as an ongoing process of growth rather than a destination 

About the Guests

Dr. Jessie Ferreira and Omar Ferreira are the co-founders of ASQ Empowerment and creators of the Fractal Coherence Methodology, a leadership framework grounded in one central belief:

Leadership that begins within is the only kind that lasts.

Drawing on decades of experience across higher education, nonprofit leadership, organizational development, and systems thinking, they help leaders and organizations strengthen culture by first understanding the internal patterns that shape how people lead.

Learn more about their work and leadership resources:
 https://asqempowerment.com

Reflection Question

How have your own life experiences shaped the way you lead—and what part of your story are you still learning to understand?

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Hello and welcome to the Thriving in Intersectionality Podcast. A podcast that explores the real experiences of professionals navigating the workplace with layered, leaded identities. I'm your host, Dr. Lola Ateemo, the CEO of EQI Mindset and founder of the nonprofit Immigrants Incorporate, Inc. I'm also an author, speaker, and a workplace inclusion strategist. I work with organizations to build communities of belonging through strategy, storytelling, and systems change. This podcast amplifies the voices of professionals from intersectional backgrounds, immigrants, ethnic minorities, first-gen professionals, veterans, working parents, individuals with disabilities, and so many more. Through solo reflections and guest conversations, we'll uncover the eating challenges, celebrate the wins, and offer insights to help you thrive, not just survive, in the corporate world. Because in today's global workforce, belonging isn't just a bonus, it's the catalyst for real growth and impact. Let's dive in. Hi everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Thriving in Intersectionality Podcast. And today I have a duo for you again. I have had um some duos before on this show, but I I was telling Dr. Jesse and Omar right before we came on here that this is the first time I've had a duo that was like ready, and we didn't have to spend like 15 minutes talking about the setup. They look like they do this so well together already, and I'm just loving it. So I'm looking forward to diving into their story. But before that, um I love to do a little bit of chats, very brief, about intersectionality. That word that I came into myself a few years ago through the work of uh Dr. Kimberly Crenshaw and the work that she did around the experiences of uh the race and gender intersection. And she coined that term, and so there's a lot to see about her work and the work she's still doing on YouTube, if you are interested in that. Uh, but I I begin by grounding the conversation in the emphasis on intersectionality as a framework that recognizes our multiple aspects of identity, such as gender, race, ethnicity, immigration status, class, role, it could look like so many different things, um, including lived experience. How all of these things overlap and interact and create very unique experience for individuals that we can understand by looking at any of these in isolation. And I think the the result could be privilege or it could be barrier when you think about all these things come together. Because I think a lot of times we think about intersectionality and we think of disadvantage and barrier, but sometimes it's the superpowers that we need to do the work we do. And so these um, these words, this framework is the through line for these podcasts. And my guests are leaders, advocates, founders that have done the work to get to where they are based on who they are, and and so we'll spend a lot of time on the who and the why behind the work that they do. So I'm really excited to introduce my guests today for you. Um, a little bit about them before I bring them in. Omar and Dr. Jesse Ferreira are the co-founders. Hopefully, I said your last name right, Ferreira.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Yes, excellent. Excellent.

SPEAKER_02 4:06

Okay. Pretty good. They are the co-founders of ASQ Empowerment and the architect of the Fractal Coherence Methodology, a framework built on a single governing premise. Leadership that begins within is the only kind, the last. I like that because I can definitely see a lot of alignment to the work they do. They don't speak in abstractions, they work from precision. And so I when I think of our conversation, I really want to learn about a lot more about who they are, how they got to where they are on this journey, and then a little bit about the work that they do and how to find them. Hi, Dr. Jesse and Omar, how are you doing today?

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Very good. Thank you so much for having us. That's a beautiful intro. I love that. It is. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

I'm I'm you're fun. I'm ready to get started.

SPEAKER_02 4:54

Oh, yeah, I like it. Tell that to my kids, tell them I'm fun.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

They just they'll never believe anybody. Yeah, they'll believe me.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

They'll believe me. You are fun. Thank you for having us.

SPEAKER_02 5:07

Send people to your kids to get them a different perspective of you. But yeah, um, I'm uh excited to get to know you both. So um, I didn't there's a whole lot about your bio, and for those listening, you see that in the show notes because I also want to get to know you through your own words and your own lens. So if you both could take a uh few minutes to introduce yourself, uh, whoever wants to go first.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

Okay. So my husband's big on ladies first, so I will go first. Chivalry is not dead. Chivalry is not dead. Um, so I am Jesse Ferreira, Dr. Jesse Ferreira. Um, I am the co-founder and CEO of ASQ Empowerment Services. Um, my background is in higher education. Um, I worked in higher education for 15 years. And uh during that time is when I went on my academic journey and went through all these degrees that I've attained to ultimately um earn my doctorate in strategic leadership. Very passionate about leadership and the construct of leadership and how much that's evolved for me and my own world and in the things that we're doing, uh not just individually, but as a collective, me and Omar. And so that's a quick background.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Thank you. I do. Yeah, you know, it's uh that's a that's always a good uh a great starting point asking who are you, right? Um, so I am a lifelong learner. I'm a person that loves to learn. Um, I don't like structure institutions of learning, uh, but I am uh a person that loves to learn, loves to understand things. Um uh I get deep in certain things because it's like it excites me, it's part of who I am. Um but for over 18 years, I worked in the nonprofit industry. So I uh have been in youth development, um, middle management, administration as well, and several nonprofits. Um I work with different programs, uh creative programs on emotional intelligence and uh ACES studies and things of that nature. And we facilitate a lot of our work based on those components that I've learned and gathered through my experience uh working in the nonprofit human service industry. So um our lives has been a composite of what we of of all these experiences and learnings and and and things that we've viewed that shaped our perspective. And our objective at this stage in life is to be able to share that uh and consequently be impactful, make a positive impact and and leave that behind after we are no longer here.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

Wow, thank you. You guys are definitely a power power duo. I'm glad to be in your network. But I also wanted to ask that question through a different lens because I know we you know talked about intersectionality. Of course, this conversation is thriving in intersectionality, and um we had a little bit of a pre pre-recording uh conversation about the word intersectionality. But when you, and this question is for uh both of you, when you think about that word intersectionality, what aspects of your life, identity, visible, invisible, do you want a spotlight that really that you think has really shaped the way you you know you see leadership today and and the world today?

SPEAKER_00 8:23

That's a great question. You can go first. I know it's brewing.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

Yeah, yeah. No, yeah. So I'm um you know, I I like thinking about this type of stuff, right? Because it's again, go back to your question, like who are you, right? Yeah, so intersectionality to me, um it's both physical and psychological. So I call it psycho spiritual, so to speak, right? Because you you take things from your environment and and you also shape your environment, and that environment and the people around you shape you, right? So I'll give you an example. My first name is Omar, which is a Muslim last name, ref first name. My last name is Ferreira, it's a Portuguese last name. I'm neither of those things, right? And okay, right. So and to add more layers to it, right? I was born in an island of the Dominican Republic, right, which was the first stop for the slave trade. So half mo um about 50% of my DNA is um Western African, and the rest is Southern European. So when you're looking at all this mixture plus Native American, so you when you look at all these things, you start looking at, okay, well, uh I'm this and I'm that, and how can I hate a part of me and another one of that? It's a very confusing little island because this is where everything intersected, all the cultures of the world intersected, right? And then in that, you I'm as I I I am an immigrant and I came moving into New York and having the two besides my mother, um, the two most impactful people in my life were both uh white, you know, Irish. And these are the ones that shape me. So when you look at this, right, I always go back to the simplicity of identifying our intentionality primarily on our physical appearance. To me, those don't make sense anymore. It's archaic, it's elementary, right? So we uh to me it's evolving into all those experiences, all those things, particularly if you live in America, is one of the few places in which you could go anywhere and experience every single culture in the world in one place. Right, right. And and when you see that it's it's is it a detriment or is it a benefit? It's something that helps us grow because we could learn. So now again, it it's um it's when I look at inter you know, the intersectionality, it's not just primarily about my physical attributes, right? Because I didn't choose any of those. Right? I didn't choose any of those, those were given to me. It's more about uh what do we gain from our experiences and how to become a greater, a better individual, a better human, a better contributor, right? Um one of my favorite philosophers, and I call him a philosopher, though he's an artist, is Bob Marley, right? And he says he has a song, it's called War. And he says, until the philosophy we hold one race superior and another inferior, it would always be war, right? And again, it's like uh the conversations about this needs to start changing, and we need to start looking at cultures and appreciating cultures because that's the beautiful part. So to me, internationality means that that idea of truly becoming an individual, a unique being, right, in this period of time, and it's a beautiful thing, um, but it is also a challenging thing because we have the social conditioning of looking only at ourselves as our physical attributes, which is a small part of how we are. Very small.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

I love that. Oh my gosh, you know. Um, if you're listening to this on audio, I always give myself that challenge of I I stop fighting it after how many episodes of these. Like, I allow myself to go there. Like, what do I think about this person? What do I think they're gonna say in response to that question before I meet them? And I'll tell you. Um, so Omer is a black man, right? That's the first label you will like all of these things that he just talked about. There's no way you would know without talking to him.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

You could assume so many things by his name, but his first and last name completely different parts of his history. So, again, this is where we all think we don't have biases, we all think we don't have preconceived notions about people, but we don't need to fight it, we just need to own it. We do have it, yeah. We have preconceived notions about people or certain groups, right? But we have to lead with curiosity. So, yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 13:04

May I say something on that? Because again, it's important that we mention this because implicit bias are real. I mean, we all have them, we can't deny it, right? And the reality, what is the source of it? It's really a survival mechanism for a time and place that no longer exists, right? That's what it is. It's a it's a time and place in which we felt danger for somebody or something that looked other, right? Because I mean, we what we want to protect ourselves, but threats are not there, and those things are not what they used to be anymore, and those things no longer exist. So the more we understand that and we put those down, right? Because again, the way through is through, it's not the avoidance, oh, I'm not that. Yeah, you we do have biases, and it's okay. What is not okay, it's acting on them and living from them, is being open to the possibility of wow, I could go over here and learn about these people, and that's cool. Yeah, you become more richer as a person if you do that.

SPEAKER_02 14:03

Yeah, that's enough. I love that. Thank you. All right, I knew this model was gonna take us a minute, but that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

And here's the thing he's not allowed to go first anymore because now what I have to say isn't gonna be as good.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

I'm just kidding. Hey, she told me to go ahead, you know?

SPEAKER_00 14:19

I'm kidding. He's he's really amazing at at talking. So, but as I was thinking about it, I was thinking, you know, before so I'm 53 years old, right? I've lived 53 years on this planet, and the first 27, 28 years of my life, life was very black and white for me. Very just this or that, that's what it is. I really didn't have um a lot of exposure to culture and and and other things. A lot of that stemmed from, you know, my father and just the way that we were brought up and whatnot. It was just like um almost having this aura of we're better then, even though I knew even then that we were not better than. Um, and then I met Omar. So I'm kind of gonna give him some credit here because Omar really did expand that idea, if we're speaking about um intersectionality, um that there is a whole nother universe out there that we can explore, right? And I was so like drawn into that because there was the idea of philosophy and all the things that I had always I've heard of, but I didn't touch on those things. I was like the little kid on the beach, and the water would come up and I would hurry up and run back, and then I would go up and just kind of just dabble a little bit because I was afraid because of what people would think, right? So when we're talking about intersectionality, for me it was really just about knowing that there's so much out there, and even though even early into our relationship, we've been married for 25 years, we but being afraid to experience those things still for fear of the what if, right? And uh that has really opened up for me over the last couple of years, just um, you know, going through being in higher education and seeing the the different types of people and the different types of um students and and individuals and learning about their history and their past and all these things that make us this unique uh person that we are, right? And really trying to appreciate other people, regardless of what the color of their skin is, where they come from, their accents. You know, it just this it's just such a beautiful thing if you think about it. It's it's crazy. When we first started this podcast, I didn't want to do any of these interviews. I was like, I don't care about anybody else's life, I care about my own life. And I'm being completely honest, being transparent here, right? Because I had not been exposed to stuff to being interested in other people's lives, right? Now I'm like excited. I get it. Now I'm like, oh, we got this interview. If somebody cancels, I'm upset because I'm like, oh, they canceled, you know, great, they just canceled, you know, because I uh we've met so many amazing people. We we could be we're speaking to you and you're in another state, you know. Um we've speak to people in Europe, people in India, people in Australia, New Zealand, um, what's the other place? Iceland Iceland the other day. Oh, yeah, that's right. I mean, it's just crazy. And these people have just filled our lives with, they've just enriched us. And there's a lot of that intersectionality that you, Dr. Lola, talk about. So it just it's just beautiful. And so just to kind of piggyback on all the good stuff he said, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:44

I I love it because I feel the same way. I tell somebody, because when I was younger, I used to read a lot of books, mostly romance and suspense to pass away the time. And then as I grew into the professional world, I started reading more educational books, and then these days I tell myself I don't have time to read books anymore, but I'm still learning. Yeah, learning through the conversations I host. I'm read learning by reading articles that people write, that thought leaders write, right? I mean, this season where my learning is really just filled with exploring people's experiences and the lessons. So you're right. I've also had interviews from different parts of the world where I'm like, this is crazy. So much access that technology has been able to provide. And and I and I think that also kind of shows up in the work you do, which is some of the things we're gonna dive in in a bit, is the more you learn about yourself, the more you learn about other people, and then how is it shaping the work that you do today? Um, so you both talked on industries a little bit and and your background, and I I wanted to, you know, just ask how how you think the work that you have done, the spaces that you have been, um, kind of shapes shows up in the work that you are doing right now. What are some of those sectors? Because I think is Omar that worked in the nonprofit sector?

SPEAKER_03 19:05

Correct. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

Yeah. How do you what what are some of the sectors that you've worked through professionally, and how do you think that shows up in the work you do today? And I'll let you go first of all.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

Yeah, so to backtrack, right? Um my formative years, uh, like I said, I've uh I moved from New York, uh from sorry, from Dominican Republic to the South Bronx in New York. And um uh my formative years on leadership was my scoutmaster and my my my scout uh mother, uh Ken Mullen and Betty Medina. Um they were a major influence, but the one influence that catalyzed it all uh to understand for me to understand leadership was my mother. Right. Um because that's really where we started. Um it was just seeing because children mimic their parents. And I saw my mother and I've learned so much from her. And as a child, you don't really get to deduce those type of things, but as you get older and you reflect, you start thinking about who really made you in terms of your the way that you are. And my mother was pivotal for that. And I'll give you a story um just to kind of like showcase what formed my leadership style and parenting style, is that uh as a young kid, I didn't want to be in the Boy Scouts, you know. I didn't speak the language, you know, it was weird and all this stuff. And um, I will grow up come up with any excuse not to go. Uh, but my mother would take and she was a beautician, and she would take that time off, take me, wait in the stand so that didn't skip. And and she did that consistently for a couple of weeks until my scoutmaster can said, Don't worry about it. He's gonna be here, he's gonna learn English and he's gonna learn all this. And those two people and Betty were really what told me to be leaders, right? What showed me what leadership is all about, which is all about service, right? And from that moment, I actually became what is called a junior assistant scout master. So uh think of it. I don't know if you've ever been in the subway in New York. So my friends, my Danny, George, and myself were the junior assistant scout master, and we used to take 60 kids on a subway, right, on field trips, and we never lost anybody, but we also went camping and we also learned about leadership, how planning and structuring. So that was my formative years, really, of what it meant to be a leader. As I got into my career, um those skills helped me out a lot. You know, strategy, planning, um, understanding that leadership is about service and making pe getting the most out of people and how do you manage them. So I learned all that stuff. But one of the things that I've learned too about um intersectionality and and and in in in in work is that um most people didn't have the leadership experience that I had about inclusivity, regardless of what who we were. We had Jewish kids, we had Muslim kids, we got black kids, white kids, Hispanic kids. It's we had the whole mixture. So we had to be able to be accommodating to all of them because you can't kick them out out of the boy scouts, you know? That's not how it operates. It's to help them grow, to help them develop, to teach. And when you get into leadership, you know, it's not always that. There's always the competition, there's always the status, there's the power dynamics. So you start learning that. And one of the things that you have to fight as an individual is not to be consumed by the traditional weight of leadership. You know, we could talk about that later. So the idea is that what shaped what we do, it really started in my formative years. And I'd be remiss if I didn't go back to that because we seldom think of that, you know, and and that's part of the work that we do is to kind of like realize who you are shaped you. Now, those are my great experiences. There were all the negative experiences, you know, like as an immigrant child, my mother left me behind because she had to come in first, right? And that as a as a seven, eight-year-old, when your parent mom is not there, you grew up without a father, you know, that sense of abandonment kicks in. As an adult, you could understand it that, oh yeah, she was doing it for a better way. As a seven-year-old, it's abandonment. So, you know, you become more isolationist, you become more withdrawn, you become more internal. And that also was a skill to protect myself. So when you start looking at things of that nature, it really is about seeing the aces, you know, the the childhood experiences that shaped you that were negative, but also the positive. Because if you go back, there's always one person that believed in you more than you did. And that's what shaped my leadership. Those people, my mother, Ken and Betty, and then those experiences of of um um going into the work environment, still being a high achiever and and and operating at a high level, but but but but just having the friction of understanding that not everyone sees the world the way that you were taught or saw it.

SPEAKER_02 23:58

That's right. I love it, I love it. And I I love the the example you shared with the Boy Scouts. It's like, well, it doesn't it didn't matter what it looked like, all the experiences is, the goal is the same. We want to help these kids be better. And so it's up to us to learn and understand how we make accommodations, how we understand a little bit more about each person so that this system and structure works for every child that is in that space. So thank you for sharing that. Dr. Jesse, um, what about you? When you think of your leadership journey today and perspective, what are some of the experiences that you think has uh shaped uh your work today?

SPEAKER_00 24:39

So, gosh, I can go back um to you know my early 20s to talk about uh leadership. Um, back in those days, I didn't think that I was a leader, but I was a leader. I was uh a young mom of three boys. I was um unhappily married and uh had to make decisions that to some people on the outside would they would not understand why I made those decisions, but I made those decisions because I knew or I had the foresight to know that if I didn't do or take the actions that I needed to take in those moments, that I probably wouldn't be here talking to you or be with this man right here. So um, you know, that's my first experience with with leadership. But then very fast forward into um being in higher education, there was a moment, you know, I I we had the housing crash and I ended up getting a full-time job at the college, and I was um an assistant to a dean and quickly learned um that this idea of leadership, how how different it was for different people, because I had been under supervisors that were completely opposite from each other, right? We talk about black and white, that was that right there. And I started to really, really digest this idea of leadership in those moments of like, wow, this is how this person interacts with this person, this is how this person interacts with this person, and really just watching human behavior. And that idea of human behavior for me really became this kind of like spotlight. Like I would I would write in my journal, like, so-and-so did this, and why does he feel like he has to micromanage? And these were a lot of really open-ended questions that I didn't have answers to because I didn't understand what I'm more understanding of today, and that we still deal with and we talk with people about, and I still learn. You said you're a lifelong learner, you still learn from other people. We do too, right? That's why we do the podcast and and we are with our clients, we're always asking questions so we can learn more about them. And and and just human behavior was really like a rampant thing for me, and it pushed me to want to learn more about leadership, which is why I went on for my um for my doctorate. And as I was in higher education in that organization and learning about leadership theoretically, because you know, for all intents and purposes, you don't learn leadership in school, you learn it outside, right? But the theory, you the theory was important, and with what we wanted to do, we thought it would be an asset. And um it the things that I discovered were different from what other people a lot of people were using a lot of the frameworks, you know, emotional intelligence, Daniel Goldman, all these different things, and very much methodical about well, this is you do this, then you get this, you know, if that, then this, you know. And I didn't look at it that way. I had a lot of pushback in some of my um from my comprehensive exams for my dissertation. I got some pushback because it was, well, you gotta understand that you're talking to a different caliber of people. Do you want people to read this? And I'm like, but people need to know about this. This is what I've observed. This is a research. It's not being made up. I'm just enhancing what's already there, right? Um, how it shaped me to what we do today is really understanding this idea of building relationships and really peeling back the onion to find, I say the onion, but that makes it sound like the people are like not good. So just peeling back the layers, right, of an individual to understand where what has happened throughout their lives to become what you had you you brought it up in the beginning, who they are today. Because all of those things that have happened to us, both positive and negative, those experiences, we bring them into everything that we do. Absolutely. And that has shaped the way that I view leadership. And I still have my moments, and there's moments when Obar will call me on. I'm like, okay, well, I didn't think about it that way, whatever, you know, because I still have to broaden that perspective and really be able to stand back and look at a situation for what it is, but understand that there's multiple variations of what this is, and it's really shaped how I interact with people, how I respond, how I show up. Um, and I'm a work in progress. I think, I mean, we all are, right?

SPEAKER_02 29:18

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

So I don't know if that answers the question, but I think I think it did.

SPEAKER_02 29:22

It does. I think so. Um, you both are like multi-layered, multi-perspective people. And I think that that's a nice segue to talk a little bit about your work. Um, the why why you do what you do. I think we've sort of kind of dived into why you do what you do a little bit, but I'd like to formally ask you for for my audience, for those listening, um, what do you do today? Because I think we're gonna unravel some of the threads of why you do what you do today is showing up. Uh, what do you do today and how do people walk with you?

SPEAKER_01 29:57

Yeah, so um I'm gonna, you know, you you gave us a set of questions, so I'm gonna kind of like tap into one of those. You know, our tagline is lead your life, shape your culture, begin within. Right. And one of the things that we discovered, because again, um the way that we look at life, we always look at life as linear, right? You if then, right? You start here, you're gonna end up there, right? And unfortunately, that's not life. Life doesn't care, right? So, right, it's like you know, that's our attempt at controlling life, right? So, um what we do now is that we really focus on understanding leadership from the standpoint that it begins with you, right? It begins with you because that's where in systems thinking you gotta find the the leverage point that gives you the most return on your investment. And the biggest return on your investment is understanding you, yourself, and that's the leverage leverage point that is gonna make a big, big impact as a leader, right? So, what we do is that we actually created a framework in with in which we contrast two different leadership styles. And we call it the the quarry, and then we call the other one the orchard, right? And again, this is not about blaming people, it's about how understanding how our subconscious behaviors, if not examined, create results that are detrimental or positive, depending upon how much we are wear. So, for instance, for the last 40 plus years, the model of leadership that we have followed is Jack Welch. He is the manager of the century, right? And I don't know if you ever heard of Jack Welch, he was the G G E um uh CEO. And while he was there, GE was producing at a higher than ever before. Or his tactics were tactics that he developed as a child. Super competitive. Mother told him that he he had to be the best at everything, and he had to compete, compete, and you know, and and in just that traditional conquering mentality, right? And GE was successful up to a point. And then within a couple of years of him retiring, GE was broken apart, kicked out of the Dow Jones, not even in there, and he was it is a shadow of the company that he used to be. Right. And consequently, his management style and leadership style has permanent permeated a lot of how we understand leadership right now. Again, not a judgment on the individual, but I want you to understand how those aces, how those those formative mentalities of how of how you would grow up show up. In contrast, the orchard, right? Again, where um within 40 years' time, uh uh GE was destroyed uh because of the mentality of Jack Welch, right? And and that that quarry mentality, extraction, taking, taking, taking. On the opposite side, you have the orchard, which for us is symbolized by Milton Hershey. So Milton Hershey, Hershey's Bards and all that stuff, right? Hershey's Kisses. Hershey's Kisses, right? Which is was an idea that came from the assembly line, believe it or not. It wasn't from the top, it actually came from the assembly line. That that one and the Reese's Kiss, the Reese's, wasn't uh from just from a ground employee, somebody that is just a higher hand, they came up with that idea. Hershey built a town to provide his stakeholders, which were his employees, right? A livable a live a good life, right? Which is, you know, one of those questions that we ask in philosophy. What is a good life? They were able to contribute, they have businesses. He opened schools. And to this day, 120 years later, his company still funds um his orphan school. He didn't have any kids, he couldn't have any kids, his wife couldn't have any kids. So they opened an orphan school that to this day it is in the in the trust by the company that he still funds it, and that town is still going. Right. So we contract we we we highlight that because if you go back far enough, it all starts with those two leaders and their makeup, their internal world, understanding things about who they are and how they show up. So when we ask that when we say that, right, live your life, shape your culture, because it is a relationship, right? We don't live in isolation. We shape everything around us, right? We shape our families, we shape our work environments, we shape our cultures. Right? And if we're not aware of how we're showing up from within, this is when we get separation. This is why intersect intersectionality is so important and key, because it shows you about me learning and accepting that everybody's you know, interpretations of the world, their cultures and things like that, all those things are beautiful. Now I could show up as a leader and radiate that out. So our work is about that. And when you create a business, when you create a system, when you are managing others, you need to fully be aware of all the components of who you are, the polarity that exists inside of you. You know, understanding that as much as you are logic, you're also impulse and desires and passions that you have to make sense of all this before you move forward. So that's the premise of how we work. And and again, it's understanding that, but also strategizing and creating systems that that that um help, you know, our definition of leadership, and we've been working on that because our book is coming out pretty soon. Our definition of leadership is this leadership is the use of power in service of life, in service of life, power in service of life. We all have power, but are we using power for us alone? For what I could get out of it, for my own survival of my family, my or are we using power for the benefit of life? And that I think is the evolution that as leaders in the corporate world, in the industry, in everything, we need to start thinking about that because, like you just said, we're just more interconnected than any other time in the existence. Yeah, and we'll continue to fight when we don't have to.

unknown 36:33

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:34

I love it. Thank you. Um that was good. Dr. Jesse, I would like to get your perspective before we kind of wrap up with reflections and practical insights for the audience. I want to get your perspective or your insight from um what do you do today? And and um what what shapes what do the work you do today at um, yes.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

ASQ.

SPEAKER_02 37:00

Like what do you do today and how do you, you know, how do you get that across to people that are listening that um could work with you?

SPEAKER_00 37:08

So um just a little brief background. Um, I left the corporate world a year ago. And when I tell people that I left the corporate world, the way that I like to say that is that I fell out of the matrix. I think I was dabbling out of the matrix a little bit, but kind of was too scared and would go back in, you know. Like same with the little kid at the beach, you know, whatever. And uh finally, when you know, there's so much resistance and so much resistance, at some point you're gonna crash into a wall. And that was my moment where I fell out of the matrix. And I was literally like Neo in the Matrix. I say this all the time. I was like, oh my god, why do my eyes hurt? It's because I was seeing life from a completely different perspective now. I'm I'm completely like, I feel like um just floating and I don't know what's going on. I was like a deer in headlights. Um, and we had ASQ empowerment services, but we weren't actively doing the things that we were doing, that we're doing today. So there was a lot that happened, there has been a lot that's happened over the year for me to evolve into what it is that I'm doing today, because I really had to find myself and I had to find myself quickly. But I also had to give my, I had to give myself the space to be able to explore the very thing that Omar was talking about because I was trying to deny the different polarity, the polarities that existed in me. And as a person who was passionate about leadership and understood this concept of you gotta know who you are in order to be an effective leader because the way that you're leading comes from stuff that's happening, those concepts weren't, they were still blurry and muddy, right? So, what we've done is, and and my role is that I'm uh what I call the relational person. Um, I'm very uh, I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I'm very good at developing relationships with people. I um have a sense of really feeling people's energy, reading where they're at, taking my time with people to get information from them in order to help them. And then we come together to implement a strategy to help them surface the things that they're going through, create their vision for whatever it is that they're trying to do. It could be a business, it could be uh, you know, a variety of things, a program, et cetera. And um, then we go in with the work that we do, which is implementing a strategy, and then we have uh full systems and operations. Systems operations, you know, we have an in-house operations team that we we have a team. Um, and so that's what we do. But my position with ASQ empowerment is very much um about the relationship aspect, really understanding people, where they're coming from, their fears, their their strengths, their weaknesses, and really just bring them into a place where they feel safe and they feel like they can share and they can say things. We've had very deep conversations with our clients. It's been very effective, and I love it because I'm getting to know them and do the thing that we talked about in the beginning, Dr. Lola. Talk like learning about people from a different perspective and appreciating where they come from, how they contribute, how I contribute. It's it's really a beautiful symbiotic uh you know relationship. I I really love it.

SPEAKER_02 40:30

And I like it, and I think that's well, one of the reasons why both of you probably work well together, too, because I think a lot of times it's it's not even people come to you with what they think they want, and sometimes it's your job to also take a minute to listen. Yes, because a lot of times people will talk about the symptoms and then they think they want this solution, and sometimes it's helping to understand deeper what is causing the symptoms and what the things do. So, yeah, I I think that's uh a good combo to bring into this leadership conversation. And so maybe um first, if anybody wants to learn more about your work, to follow you. Um, I know you have a podcast. Do you want to uh verbalize? All of these will be added to the show notes, but sure into the podcast and how can people work with you?

SPEAKER_00 41:24

Sure. So our podcast is ASQ Podcast, and we're on you know, Spotify, YouTube, we have a YouTube. Um, you can find us on social media handles if you Google ASQ podcast. Also, um they can ASQ empower. Yeah, you can also go to asq empowerment.com and that they would learn more about more deeply about the work that we do and how we um just how we work and how what we're doing. You know, they get a good we have resources on there, we write articles. Uh we do have a book coming out in a couple of months here. Um, that's just about finished, so we're excited about that. Uh what else? What am I missing? Um, no, that's pretty much it. That's it in terms of what it does, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:03

Great. Thank you. Yeah, I'm looking forward to sharing more about your book when it comes out later. Thank you. I will do you work primarily with individuals or with leaders within organizations? Who's your target audience?

SPEAKER_01 42:18

Yeah, so uh we work with um um executive directors, um um ABA leaders, um uh uh CEOs, organizations, and individuals. So we work with with whether a rate of small to medium size size businesses as well uh to help them streamline number first their strategy. And we asked two questions. Uh, the first one is what do you really want? What do you really want? You know, uh, and then we dive deep into that because we want to see, we want to get, we want to go beyond um the oh, we want money. Okay, well, you want security. Money is a tool to get you security. What does security look like to you? What does freedom look like to you? What uh what is it? What is this lifestyle that life that you want to build? So um that's kind of like our first conversation. So we do work with small businesses, nonprofits, and any organization that is a mission-driven organization that really wants to clarify their direction, but also be able to have the operational systems, right? Because systems are important um to be able to get there.

SPEAKER_02 43:27

Yeah, I love it. Thank you for sharing that. All right, so as we close out, um, I think the final question I will just ask you both will be well, there is a final question that I always ask, which is a signature question. Um, but before that, any advice, any bots of wisdom you want to share for leaders who are maybe feeling overwhelmed or stuck? Um, anything actionable, quick that you can share right now for them that it can take away?

SPEAKER_00 43:58

I would say actionable. That they could apply right now. There's a very I talk about this in some group um facilitations that I do, and um it's been a very powerful technique for a lot of the people that I've talked to. But there's there's a there's something that we teach, but what it's called is basically a pause. And whenever you're in a situation with somebody when um say it's a confrontational or just doesn't feel comfortable, or there's you know, maybe you don't want to go into a situation for whatever reason, there's power in pausing before taking any action. And I think that that has saved a lot of the people, a lot of my clients and a lot of the people that we talk to. Um, because I get people call me and they go, I had to exercise the pause today, and thank God I did that because it could have gone this way or you know. Um it's such a basic technique, but it's so powerful because it gives you a moment to sort of exit and become the observer of whatever is happening. And I know that sounds like I'm sure people listening or watching are gonna be that's like that could be a 10-minute thing. You can't how long you pausing? You don't have to respond. That is a response. Pausing is a response. You don't have to respond to everything that happens. And I think that if people could step back and examine this idea of pause or try it, they would find that it becomes very effective. It's been effective for me. We we teach again. I learned all the theoretical stuff. We teach from lived experience, and I speak from lived experience. I don't tell anybody to do anything I haven't done myself. It works, and other people can uh speak to that. It's it's amazing, it's powerful. So something practical right now, that's what I would recommend. Power of the pause.

SPEAKER_02 45:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 45:45

Power of the pause.

SPEAKER_01 45:47

Um to me, the the the one word of advice is perspective, right? And in particular, this. Um, you know, we are taught that with personal development, right, you get somewhere. Right. And the thing about is shifting that perspective and looking at your life as an unfoldment rather than a destination. Right. Because as you unfold, like a flower unfolds, more things come out, new things about you are developed. You are you're learning new things about you in relationship to other people, in relationship to other cultures. You are unfolding. You're not a destination, you know. So shift that perspective from a completion mentality to an unfoldment mentality, and then life shifts, it changes because now you're more open and to possibilities, new ideas, right? Because our world is going to require new ideas with other technological changes that are happening. And if you're so stuck and this is who I am and that's it, yeah, it's not it's gonna leave you behind. So unfold.

SPEAKER_02 46:53

Unfold perspective. And I love it, and I love the combination of what you both shared because I think in a world that gets so ectic and result-driven, sometimes we forget about pausing, yes, and giving ourselves room to become, to unfold, to open up. And and I think it what you are both talking about is a shift in work we're doing on ourselves. It doesn't matter what you think you want. Like, I want to make more money in my business. I want to do it, starts with the work you're doing in yourself. That's the only thing you can control. Absolutely. Yeah, that's all right.

SPEAKER_01 47:28

And that's what you always begin within, you know. That's it.

SPEAKER_02 47:30

Yeah, absolutely. I love it. Thank you so much for coming on today and sharing more about your your background, your very rich, layered perspectives and insights that you bring into the work you do, but also I I think it gave us a better idea of why the work you do is really important and um impactful because of what you pour into it. So I appreciate getting to know both both of you.

SPEAKER_00 47:57

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 47:58

All right, um, now my final question, which is a fun one, is about food.

SPEAKER_00 48:06

Oh, I must have missed that one. I was talking about onions earlier, though.

SPEAKER_01 48:12

I I you know, you know what else has layers? Parfaits, parfaits are delicious.

SPEAKER_02 48:17

Oh, okay, I like it. Now you're making me thirsty for that. But if you could share a meal, a meal, a fruit, a snack, if you could eat something with your co-workers, what would you pick and why did you pick what you picked? So who's gonna start? Dr. Jesse.

SPEAKER_00 48:35

If I could if I could not onions, I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_02 48:38

Not onions.

SPEAKER_00 48:40

I love onions, no, I'm kidding. Um so a meal that I would share with them with a friend with a friend or co-workers. With co-workers, okay. Yeah, can it be something that I would it be something that I make?

SPEAKER_02 48:56

It doesn't have whatever you want. What would you keep?

SPEAKER_00 48:59

So I make a mean banana bread. Okay, very good banana bread. Not I don't put nuts in mine, I put raisins in mine, and it is very good. And I have brought it to multiple engagements.

SPEAKER_02 49:12

So it must be really good.

SPEAKER_00 49:14

It's very my son always wants me to bake him a whole loaf. It's just that thing that people just love. And what happens with that is we start talking about the layers and what did you put in it, and oh, I taste this and I taste that, and I'm like, keep it coming, keep it coming. So you're pulling back the layers of my banana bread, banana, the banana peels. No, that that would be it. I think it it just inspires conversation, and people are very happy, and it just I don't know, they keep going back for more. It fills me up because it makes me feel good because they love it. Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_03 49:48

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 49:52

So for me is a Jamaican beef patty with cocoa bread and a Guinness. Oh yes, a Jamaican beef patty with cocoa bread, and actually, I wanted to get one today, but I was too far away from the place to get one, so I'm kind of like craving it even more. But you could give me a Jamaican beef patty, some cocoa bread, and a nice Guinness.

SPEAKER_00 50:16

Oh my gosh, that's a good one. That's a good one.

SPEAKER_02 50:18

That makes me happy. Okay, so both of you all seeing it, get together. I'm definitely showing up. That's what I heard. Yes, yes, sure.

SPEAKER_01 50:29

We like food, we like food. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:31

And and I love, I love to Dr. Jesse's point. I think food is just such a universal language as well. Um, and and and it always brings back together all the things we've been talking about, about the work you've done in yourself, about the layers that you bring, because a lot of times when people talk about the food they will share, it also reflects how they think about the relationships that they are building.

SPEAKER_00 50:55

So that's true.

SPEAKER_02 50:57

Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. All right, well, that was a lot of stuff, and we didn't even cover half of the things I want to know. So maybe there will be a part two.

SPEAKER_01 51:06

Hey, let us know. Let us know.

SPEAKER_02 51:08

Yeah, let us know. Um, but thank you so much for coming on today, Dr. Jesse and Omar. It's been amazing getting to know both of you. You both bring so much combination of so many things. I think we could have sat on just the identity and intersectionalities alone. Yeah, probably for the entire aspect of this conversation. Um, but I'm looking forward to following your work, sharing, and for those listening, we have a way for you to provide fan mail. So check the bottom of the show notes. You can give us feedback on this episode directly. What did you think what stood out for you? And and please follow along with Dr. Jesse and um Omar and learn more about their work. Also, you can check out their podcast, and I'm looking forward to hearing what stood out to you all. Thank you both for being here today.

SPEAKER_00 51:56

Thank you so much for my hands.

SPEAKER_02 52:03

Thank you for being part of today's conversation on thriving in intersectionality. If you're an HR or DEI leader and you need employee resource group or business resource group resources, let's connect and LinkedIn and help organizations build inclusive cultures through inclusive workplace communities, strategy, and storytelling. Immigrants and first-gen professionals, join our free community at www.immigrantsincorporate.org for career support, networking, and resources in community with peers who understand your journey. Tag our podcast page on LinkedIn or connect with me directly to continue the conversation. Please don't forget to rate and review to help others discover these discussions. Keep thriving in your intersections. Your story matters. I'm Dr. Lola Adeyemo, and this has been Thriving in Intersectionality Podcast.